Let's recapitulate. The first section of the second round will be like this:
Match 17: Meiling, Patchouli VS Kanako, Hina Match 18: Cirno, Wriggle VS Tenshi, Mystia Match 19: Yuugi, Komachi VS Mokou, Koishi Match 20: Yuyuko, Reimu VS Mima, Yuuka
Seems pretty balanced, except for Match 19, where Tenshi and Mystia seems to have a slight edge, though it's still uncertain.
Next matchs are:
Match 9: Youmu, Rumia VS Letty, Lily Black Match 10: Koakuma, Kaguya VS Nitori, Remilia Match 11: Lily White, Merlin VS Keine, Flandre Match 12: Lyrica, Yukari VS Tokiko, Reisen
Very odd matchs-up. I wonder if Letty and Lily Black will be able to work together, judging their reactions to Shizuha's declaration.
i think its just me but, i'm kinda worried about match 20 Yuyuko/Reimu vs Yuuka/Mima That some plot armour let reimu win. but it its the artist choice, even if i dont like it. i will keep reading it.
Kreceir said: i think its just me but, i'm kinda worried about match 20 Yuyuko/Reimu vs Yuuka/Mima That some plot armour let reimu win. but it its the artist choice, even if i dont like it. i will keep reading it.
At least there's no total annihilation happens except of that Rock, but couple of days or weeks Sunny will be good as new.
aListers said: I'm glad Mima won even though it was Yuuka who did all the work.
Be glad that it's only Yuuka who've done the working for awhile, and if wasn't for Luna's power, the two of them will completely be obliterated if Mima would help.
- Goast vs Goast, magic (and a determinator-ness greater than Marisa's) vs strategy, foresight and deception.
- Reimu's intuition hax can be troublesome too
- Reimu may have to tell Yuyuko what Mima and Yuuka's attacks look like.. if Reimu's still willing to cooperate, and can accept being possibly used by Yuyuko again
- Reimu can decide the match on a last-second move, from her intuition, or for not wanting to lose in a spellcard duel, to this duo, who may want or try to beat her in her own "game" :p
- let's see if Reimu has improved from the past games and written works (though she hasn't shown this on her first match)
- Guess Marisa's match will be mostly about effort, rather than natural talent.
Kreceir said: i think its just me but, i'm kinda worried about match 20 Yuyuko/Reimu vs Yuuka/Mima That some plot armour let reimu win. but it its the artist choice, even if i dont like it. i will keep reading it.
Reimu has fantasy heaven at her disposal. She doesn't have plot armor, she has an incredibly broken spellcard. Plot armor isn't a neccessity for Reimu to win.
I can't help but to feel that Sunny will pop up, revealing Luna giving up ruined some sort of plan. Then again I could be wrong. Still to last as long as they did is commendable.
Byakugan01 said: Reimu has fantasy heaven at her disposal. She doesn't have plot armor, she has an incredibly broken spellcard. Plot armor isn't a neccessity for Reimu to win.
uuummm.. and what is something like this if not plot armor? Canon plot armor sure, but still.
Dawnfire said: uuummm.. and what is something like this if not plot armor? Canon plot armor sure, but still.
A spellcard. In relation to the games, an overpowered survival spellcard. As long as the opponent can survive until the spell break, Reimu is beatable. After all, plot armor didn't save her in Imperishable Night if you were using the Remi/Sakuya team or the Marisa/Alice team and anybody can challenge Fantasy Heaven in spell practice mode.
Plot armor only truly belongs to the main character of the current story. In this case, Meiling and Patchy. Though I'd expect it to last until the final round only where they're finally allowed to lose. That'll be really fun to watch since we won't know for sure if they can win.
IIRC, Fantasy Heaven is a last word, basically something extra outside the main game, though in her IN boss cards have various tricks (sudden teleports, borders that adjust the flow of bullets,etc)
Actually, has Yuuka said anything at all ever since her first appearance in this series? Checking back, she hasn't uttered a single word in this match or before (Mima was doing all the talking).
Match 10: Koakuma, Kaguya vs Nitori, Remilia
Our first SDM residents since the very first match. I think Remilia's getting this one due to secondary plot armour, since a future matchup of Meiling/Patchouli vs Remilia is Dramatically Appropriate, compared to Patchouli vs Koakuma.
Match 12: Lyrica, Yukari vs Tokiko, Reisen
Much as I love both Tokiko and Reisen (to the point of Favourite Characters), I'm going to have to give this one to the Gap.
Those two matches seem pretty even. (Yukari's match is dependent on how much she wants to try.), though I'm sure Tokiko will put on a good show even in the face of mostly superior forces. Look how well Akyuu was doing before Tenshi and Mystia got lucky.
StriderTuna said: Those two matches seem pretty even. (Yukari's match is dependent on how much she wants to try.), though I'm sure Tokiko will put on a good show even in the face of mostly superior forces. Look how well Akyuu was doing before Tenshi and Mystia got lucky.
If anyone got lucky, it's Chen and Akyuu. If you played SWR, you should know that those two shouldn't have stood the tiniest of chances against Tenshi. Tenshi can not only go toe to toe with, but DEFEAT, the likes of Yuyuko, Suika, and Reimu. That match should have been an even bigger stomp than this one.
Kreceir said: i think its just me but, i'm kinda worried about match 20 Yuyuko/Reimu vs Yuuka/Mima That some plot armour let reimu win. but it its the artist choice, even if i dont like it. i will keep reading it.
Plot armor? Reimu canonically defeated them both before she even had full access to all of her powers. They shouldn't be able to do anything against her now that she's even MORE powerful (In fact, Mima should be a total non-factor). If anyone would get plot armor in that match, it would be Yuuka and Mima. Yes, your beloved Yuuka isn't nearly as strong as you think she is.
Deelles said: Seems pretty balanced, except for Match 19, where Tenshi and Mystia seems to have a slight edge, though it's still uncertain.
Uh...an asthmatic, frail magician and an average if not weak Youkai in nearly all respects vs a god is balanced? And quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Cirno somehow solos Tenshi just because.
Cosmic-Fusion said: Uh...an asthmatic, frail magician and an average if not weak Youkai in nearly all respects vs a god is balanced? And quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Cirno somehow solos Tenshi just because.
In fairness, being a god didn't excuse her from getting punched by an oni, even if it was only a minor hit to her. It also really depends on how far Kiku is willing to take manipulation of chi to. Meiling never even used the Philosopher's Stone as Patchouli intended her to anyway so we still have to watch out for that. And for being frail and asthmatic, Patchy is still very formidable in a fighting game of all things.
Not that that completely balances out godhood of course.
Cosmic-Fusion said: If anyone got lucky, it's Chen and Akyuu. If you played SWR, you should know that those two shouldn't have stood the tiniest of chances against Tenshi. Tenshi can not only go toe to toe with, but DEFEAT, the likes of Yuyuko, Suika, and Reimu. That match should have been an even bigger stomp than this one.
Uh...an asthmatic, frail magician and an average if not weak Youkai in nearly all respects vs a god is balanced? And quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Cirno somehow solos Tenshi just because.
Tenshi is mainly tough, outside of her story mode, where it could be argued they were caught off guard/weren't really trying.
I say lucky as Akyuu's tactics were working well before things fell apart and given the raw toughness advantage Tenshi had, GG.
As for the second point, it's hard to guage Meiling's real strength due to making 1-2 appearances in the normal series and Tasafro having a thing for making her a joke character until recently (and even then she suffered some nerfing)
These battles are often more than just raw strength or reputation in fanon (otherwise Alice and Sakuya wouldn't have lost). Though in some of the matches some folks tried some stupid stuff (such as Tewi thinking lighting Yuugi on fire was a good idea)
Cosmic-Fusion said: If anyone got lucky, it's Chen and Akyuu. If you played SWR, you should know that those two shouldn't have stood the tiniest of chances against Tenshi. Tenshi can not only go toe to toe with, but DEFEAT, the likes of Yuyuko, Suika, and Reimu. That match should have been an even bigger stomp than this one.
Suika forced Tenshi to give her some of the celestials' territory. Mystia landed a lucky hit on Akyuu, while blinded, and thus couldn't help Chen further. Not that this would've helped much, since Tenshi could possibly attempt to attack Akyuu.. but who knows if Chenkyuu (at their full potential) would be a strong enough combination to defeat her first.
Cosmic-Fusion said: Plot armor? Reimu canonically defeated them both before she even had full access to all of her powers. They shouldn't be able to do anything against her now that she's even MORE powerful (In fact, Mima should be a total non-factor). If anyone would get plot armor in that match, it would be Yuuka and Mima. Yes, your beloved Yuuka isn't nearly as strong as you think she is.
Plot armor in that the spellcard system allows her to keep retrying to solve incidents (analogous to how players can keep trying to 1cc the games). But Mima and Yuuka are from before the spellcard system, right? And so is Shinki. Think about it. Everyone *can* (possibly) defeat everyone. (though Reimu got bad luck in SSiB, being in the role of an incident causer, instead, and far behind in battle experience)
Cosmic-Fusion said: (In fact, Mima should be a total non-factor). If anyone would get plot armor in that match, it would be Yuuka and Mima. Yes, your beloved Yuuka isn't nearly as strong as you think she is.
Mima scolds Marisa for not training harder, in PoDD. It will take a considerable time before Marisa can reach her level or surpass her, or Yuuka. Maybe someday, if she indeed decides to become a youkai magician.
Regarding Yuuka, her power is the ability of... summoning/shooting flowers or whatever. But then, you get to see her firing "Master Sparks" without Marisa's hakkero, while being half-awake. And you fight her again on the next stage, because one boss fight isn't enough.
Cosmic-Fusion said: Uh...an asthmatic, frail magician and an average if not weak Youkai in nearly all respects vs a god is balanced? And quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Cirno somehow solos Tenshi just because.
matches in this tournament aren't meant to be balanced, and I liked the random teams.. (especially when we have such a PC-98 duo, heheh)
I look forward for Cirno freezing SWR back to Tenshi, because it consists of lots of bullets.
shadowbringer said: I look forward for Cirno freezing SWR back to Tenshi, because it consists of lots of bullets.
I expect that to happen, but I also expect Tenshi/Mystia to just roll right through Cirno/Wriggle, if mainly because the latter provide a much smaller Round 3 threat for Meiling/Patchy than the former.
Also, the Yuuka v Remiu result depends on just how far the writer is going to take their abilities. I mean with the 'ability to manipulate borders' becoming the ability to reality warp at will, and Reimu's ability to float somehow becomes the ability to "float away from reality", there's no reason why Yuuka's "ability to make flowers bloom" couldn't be the "ability to make flowers bloom, without limit to time, location, size, species or number" meaning she could grow flowers inside people instantly or grow an infinite shield of flowers out of nowhere or whatever. The thing about Touhou is that if someone takes any ability (even those as seemingly useless as 'makes flowers bloom') to the extreme, it can probably become game-breaking.
shadowbringer said: Suika forced Tenshi to give her some of the celestials' territory. Mystia landed a lucky hit on Akyuu, while blinded, and thus couldn't help Chen further. Not that this would've helped much, since Tenshi could possibly attempt to attack Akyuu.. but who knows if Chenkyuu (at their full potential) would be a strong enough combination to defeat her first.
I seriously doubt that they could have defeated Tenshi even if they ganged up on her. Chen basically caught her flat-footed with her most recognizable spellcard (Red Oni, Blue Oni), while she was getting a power boost from Ran, and Tenshi got right back up, eager for more. Akyuu had strategy, but her partner just doesn't have the power necessary to make up for Akyuu being otherwise worthless.
You were on the money about Suika beating her though. However, Tenshi has beaten Reimu (you could argue Reimu didn't take her seriously if you want, but you'd think Reimu's intuition would prevent that and she still lost regardless), its been commented in SWR that Sakuya's knives can't even scratch Tenshi's skin, and Tenshi has stayed alive as long as she has by killing every Shinigami who ever came after her (we are talking beings at least close to Komachi's level even if they don't have her haxxed ability), so Tenshi is actually pretty damn high tier (which makes perfect sense, she is the last boss of her game after all), but fanon rarely gives her her due.
Plot armor in that the spellcard system allows her to keep retrying to solve incidents (analogous to how players can keep trying to 1cc the games). But Mima and Yuuka are from before the spellcard system, right? And so is Shinki. Think about it. Everyone *can* (possibly) defeat everyone. (though Reimu got bad luck in SSiB, being in the role of an incident causer, instead, and far behind in battle experience)
That argument makes no sense. If Reimu decisively defeated them both back when losing actually had real consequences (Reimu actually died if she lost in some of the pre-Windows games), then why should she have any trouble with them now that she is stronger and killing is basically against the rules?
As for SSiB, yeah, Reimu really wasn't into (she admitted herself that the Gensokyo gang were the bad guys there and the bad guys always lose), and even then she was fighting someone who could do almost everything she could do and had centuries of combat training over her. Still, if she had used Fantasy Heaven she could have probably at least dragged the fight out longer or maybe even won, but, yeah, its Reimu and she had no real motivation to put forth that much effort for someone who was only defending her home and was even being polite about it (Yorihime even said if they lost the only real consequence would be they'd have to go home).
Mima scolds Marisa for not training harder, in PoDD. It will take a considerable time before Marisa can reach her level or surpass her, or Yuuka. Maybe someday, if she indeed decides to become a youkai magician.
That's pure speculation. We have no accurate gauge of how much time has passed since PoDD, nor can we measure exactly how much Marisa has improved since then considering she has been on constant adventures while Mima has been doing jack squat, and to top it all off that comment by Mima doesn't actually indicate how much of a gap in strength there was between them. For all we know Mima wasn't much stronger and may have simply been annoyed that Marisa was slacking off (goodness knows Reimu slacks off and still gets stronger).
Regarding Yuuka, her power is the ability of... summoning/shooting flowers or whatever. But then, you get to see her firing "Master Sparks" without Marisa's hakkero, while being half-awake. And you fight her again on the next stage, because one boss fight isn't enough.
You also fight Rin multiple times throughout Subterranean Animism. Far more than you ever fight Yuuka. Doesn't make Rin stronger (or even that strong in the grand scheme of things). Also, Yuuka doesn't actually know the Master Spark in canon. That's pure fanon that took off because one of Yuuka's pre-Windows attacks looks similar (note she doesn't do anything like that in PoFV). As for her power, it could be incredibly haxxed, but seeing as how Reimu has trounced her twice in one game (after busting into Yuuka's own house no less) back when there were technically no rules it's a safe bet her flower power can make danmaku-spitting monster plants at best rather than Chado's infamous "make flowers bloom inside your body" interpretation.
matches in this tournament aren't meant to be balanced, and I liked the random teams.. (especially when we have such a PC-98 duo, heheh)
I look forward for Cirno freezing SWR back to Tenshi, because it consists of lots of bullets.
Agreed. Something we didn't get to see in the Cirno/Wriggle vs Satori/Daiyousei match was Cirno's Fairy Wars ability to freeze danmaku. If they have any small chance in hell of realistically beating Tenshi its going to come down to that.
Yeah, this went pretty much how I figured...well, the end result at least. There was never any real doubt that Yuuka and Mima wouldn't win, it was just a question of how badly the fairies would get hurt. :)
We...We give up......oh, we can talk again!? A-and the match is over!!To Be ContinuedThe Mima/Yuuka team proceeds to Round 2!!!Silent pressure has ended a battle fought in soundless space!The fairy tag team have been helplessly crushed before Yuuka's physical abilities!!!Poff
